Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject:
BaseUnit accepts only a single entry, AFAIK. Or maybe BuildConst is bonkers. Maybe both. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Both BaseUnit and BuildConst accept only one entry and that's what makes it necessary to come up with some sort of work-around if you want to add more factions.
Tiberian Sun only uses a single Construction Yard for both GDI and Nod, which is specified after BuildConst= and this same construction yard can't also be used for newly added factions (no structures will appear on the sidebar for the new faction unless they're given a different construction yard).
Even if you don't wanna add a new faction, people might want to use a different image for the GDI and Nod construction yards, but BuildConst only accepting one entry makes this impossible.
The AI also won't deploy its MCV if the structure specified after DeploysInto= is not the structure that's also specified after BuildConst= and it won't also build anything even if does own a Construction Yard, but it does not own the structure specified after BuildConst=. Last edited by Bittah Commander on Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
While attaching limpets into infantry does not seem to slow the infantry down or change its selection box color, it does make it reveal terrain for you.
Found kind of a solution to this. if you set Sight=0 for the starting infantry units, they will not reveal anything even when infected by the limpet logic. I thought the limpet had a fixed shroud reveal range, at least from what I recall it would always reveal shroud at a range of about 4-5, no matter what unit it had infected. Either I remember wrong or the limpet shroud reveal behaves differently for infantry. For infantry the shroud reveal range is the Sight value of the infected infantry.
Regardless, this should work now and allow getting rid of all the map triggers. Though in return every player starts with 1 infantry unit (in addition to the MCV), and that infantry unit has to have Sight=0. It should also have MoveToShroud=no so you can't order and lose him under the shroud.
Which of these methods is preferable? The one with 2 map triggers (for every map) or the extra starting unit with Sight=0?
Iran wrote:
What INI keys are broken for these workaround to be needed?
As Graion mentioned, BaseUnit and BuildConst only accept one value. BaseUnit is not THAT big a deal as it can be circumvented, but BuildConst specifically causes problems for side-specific con.yards and the AI (which this tutorial goes long ways to get around). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Spent few minutes to put limpet logic but running into complications. Can you give the code change with limpet logic.
Edit: Got it working with limpet logic. Sometimes the starting human mcv shows the unable to deploy cursor even if it is far from the starting infantry!
Sometimes it shows deploy cursor but does not deploy. Moreover, the attaching effect of limpet is not perfect, sometimes one of the AI mcv starts
moving towards the opponents infantry. Last edited by E1 Elite on Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:22 am; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
BaseUnit= is used as if it only takes on value, both reading from RULES.INI and actual uses with for example spawning. It's only used in a few spots so it's not that hard to fix.
BuildConst takes a list and sometimes is broken about it, there's a lot of generated code as internally the BuildConst values are stored in a dynamic array of UnitType IDs. Don't know what's wrong with it but it doesn't take that long to find out. Problem is the way the game code uses the dynamic vector.
It's probably why CCHyper already has those two fixed. QUICK_EDIT
Heh here's another weird alternative to fix the HELPER vehicle issue. Instead of giving it any weapons, just give it
Code:
[HELPER]
...
MovementRestrictedTo=Rock
SpeedType=Creep ; Would need to take over one SpeedType for it
[Rock]
Creep=100%
Now each HELPER vehicle starts on top of a cliff or some other terrain with Land=Rock. The AI will deploy the vehicles on the impassable terrain, while the human HELPER will just sit there, not blocking anyone since cliffs are meant to be impassable anyway. Since it has Insignificant=yes it would blow up when the human player has lost.
But on my quick test I did notice one starting location where you wouldn't get a HELPER vehicle at all because there were no cliffs or other Land=Rock terrain nearby. So it would require any maps to have cliffs or a rock or something somewhere around the spawn location. Though it can be fairly far away.
But yeah, if Iran can fix the core problem itself there isn't much need for any of this. I won't update the tutorial unless I find a way to remove the map triggers in a way that creates zero side-effects. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Have you taken a look at the work-around I used to get 4 factions to work in DTA?
The AI MCVs deploy via a dummy weapon with DeployToFire=yes and the Construction Yard then spawns an unselectable free unit. This unit looks like a barrel and can be destroyed with a single shot; it will simply remain next to the Construction Yard in human bases, while the AI will immediately deploy it into the BuildConst structure.
UnitCount is locked at 2 (1 would've been better, but back then it would still always change to 2 when hosting a LAN game) and the starting unit prices are tweaked so that you'll always start with just the BaseUnit and 1 MCV (or only the MCV if Bases are disabled, but it's kinda pointless to disable bases if you're getting an MCV anyhow).
The BaseUnit is a HunterSeeker with FlightLevel=20000, Strength=1 and Primary=Pistola (any weapon with Damage=1 will do). Thanks to this the HunterSeeker will spend the first few minutes of the game (about as much time as it takes to build a power plant+barracks+Refinery) climbing to that flight level and once it gets there, it flies off towards a random target (often another player's BaseUnit) and self-destructs.
This Hunter Seeker BaseUnit is what allows you to have an MCV that's not the BaseUnit, without having to sacrifice Short Game. The only downside of this is that failing to deploy your MCV before the BaseUnit self-destructs will make a player instantly lose if Short Game is enabled, but given this takes about as long as it takes to build a refinery (or you can make it take even longer by increasing the flight level), this shouldn't happen unless a player completely fell asleep or something.
You of course still hear "Unit Lost" when the Base Unit self-destructs, but since it doesn't happen right at the start of the match, I think it's only a small matter. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
BaseUnit= is used as if it only takes on value, both reading from RULES.INI and actual uses with for example spawning. It's only used in a few spots so it's not that hard to fix.
BuildConst takes a list and sometimes is broken about it, there's a lot of generated code as internally the BuildConst values are stored in a dynamic array of UnitType IDs. Don't know what's wrong with it but it doesn't take that long to find out. Problem is the way the game code uses the dynamic vector.
It's probably why CCHyper already has those two fixed.
Once I get some free time to bug test the fixes, I will release the fix. QUICK_EDIT
Have you taken a look at the work-around I used to get 4 factions to work in DTA?
The AI MCVs deploy via a dummy weapon with DeployToFire=yes and the Construction Yard then spawns an unselectable free unit. This unit looks like a barrel and can be destroyed with a single shot; it will simply remain next to the Construction Yard in human bases, while the AI will immediately deploy it into the BuildConst structure.
UnitCount is locked at 2 (1 would've been better, but back then it would still always change to 2 when hosting a LAN game) and the starting unit prices are tweaked so that you'll always start with just the BaseUnit and 1 MCV (or only the MCV if Bases are disabled, but it's kinda pointless to disable bases if you're getting an MCV anyhow).
The BaseUnit is a HunterSeeker with FlightLevel=20000, Strength=1 and Primary=Pistola (any weapon with Damage=1 will do). Thanks to this the HunterSeeker will spend the first few minutes of the game (about as much time as it takes to build a power plant+barracks+Refinery) climbing to that flight level and once it gets there, it flies off towards a random target (often another player's BaseUnit) and self-destructs.
This Hunter Seeker BaseUnit is what allows you to have an MCV that's not the BaseUnit, without having to sacrifice Short Game. The only downside of this is that failing to deploy your MCV before the BaseUnit self-destructs will make a player instantly lose if Short Game is enabled, but given this takes about as long as it takes to build a refinery (or you can make it take even longer by increasing the flight level), this shouldn't happen unless a player completely fell asleep or something.
You of course still hear "Unit Lost" when the Base Unit self-destructs, but since it doesn't happen right at the start of the match, I think it's only a small matter.
All of these methods have different small side-effects. I had one more method that would force Bases=no and have the HELPER unit deploy for humans as well as the AI. This time the side-effect being EVA's "cannot deploy here" at the start of the match (as the MCV tries to insta deploy, but failing as it is still momentarily blocked by the HELPER unit). It would allow the removal of the shroud map trigger, but not the EVA one, so didn't bother to change the tutorial.
Btw even with your method you cannot 100% emulate Short Game. Normally in a Short Game if you only have the con.yard left and undeploy it, you wouldn't lose as long as you have the MCV unit alive. Since BaseUnit won't accept more than 1 value without hacking the EXE, this problem can never be fixed without a hack. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Yeah, my method does indeed have the downside that you'll lose the game if you only have an MCV and no buildings left, while Short Game is enabled (it's easy to forget about this and then un-deploy your Construction Yard while having no other structures, which then instantly causes you to lose the game).
I believe your method has the same downside however.
The difference with my method is that it's not necessary to add any triggers to any maps. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
BaseUnit= is used as if it only takes on value, both reading from RULES.INI and actual uses with for example spawning. It's only used in a few spots so it's not that hard to fix.
BuildConst takes a list and sometimes is broken about it, there's a lot of generated code as internally the BuildConst values are stored in a dynamic array of UnitType IDs. Don't know what's wrong with it but it doesn't take that long to find out. Problem is the way the game code uses the dynamic vector.
It's probably why CCHyper already has those two fixed.
Once I get some free time to bug test the fixes, I will release the fix.
How did fix up BaseUnit=? Did you convert it into a dynamic vector? QUICK_EDIT
I've mostly gotten this to work with the exception of the player's helper unit which just flails about randomly on the map, which I saw having it in a visible state. Predictably this has no real side effect aside from not having the prompts for low power, etc. I'm no expert in how buildconst works, would I even get those prompts with a suicidal building? Anyhow, the AI seems to auto-deploy the unit anyhow which has had no real issues, just the player. QUICK_EDIT
The player's helper unit is an invisible shp and it should be included in your mix file. It also self-destructs
for the player, so it shouldn't exist after first few seconds. You could reduce its Strength from 10 to 2, if
there is some delay in self destruct.
Those fake buildings are not suicidal but are Insignificant and InvisibleInGame. QUICK_EDIT
I made it visible for testing purposes. As per my problem, the unit isn't being destroyed at all, it just endlessly roams the map.
I meant to point out though that deploying the unit into a building with a weapon seems better than outright destroying it since you need it to fire off anyways if you loose the power and funds prompts. QUICK_EDIT
To the best of my knowledge, I even copy/pasted code to try to fix it. Are you using the TS Client? (I doubt it makes a difference but who knows.)
Here are my rules/art I'm using. I am using MCV as the dummy unit, with rangedsuicide/rangedsuicide2/rangedsuicidepr as the weapons and projectiles, and bconst and bconst2 as the structures. I'm adding in 2 factions instead of just 1 (the Forgotten & CABAL, pretty unoriginal but I intend to be changing and playing the campaign mainly).
You have used DeployToFire=yes twice in [MCV], remove both of them as the vehicle is supposed to
self destruct and the building it deploys into doesn't even have a weapon.
Also declare SUICIDE in [Animations]. I haven't checked rest of the INI, first test with these 2 changes.
Once you get it working, then take a backup and try variations if you want.
For me, it works in both in vanilla mod and TS Client with sidebars in both. QUICK_EDIT
Thanks a ton for pointing that out, it's working now, somehow all my modding problems usually boil down to missing an ini tag that should or shouldn't be there. My sidebars are still junk but I need to really go over how the hack works in specific because all I did was copy all the side specific mixes for the new sides and changed the side definitions to how they are in those rules. QUICK_EDIT
hi joe, super in-depth guide thank you for the time to explain. i still have some very specific questions, can i maybe speak with you or someone on discord for some discussions. i feel i would understand this better while having voice conversation. my discord is BarakYisrael#8187
feel free to add me guys. id greatly appreciate it QUICK_EDIT
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